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	<title>Comments for Perfect Word Ministries</title>
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	<link>http://www.perfect-word.org</link>
	<description>A Messianic Jewish Equipping Ministry</description>
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		<title>Comment on Jew Food by KG</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>KG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=303#comment-334</guid>
		<description>Shalom Debi -- thank you for your comments. It was an interesting choice to use sarcasm in an attempt to make your point.

To generally address your apparent application of Torah, I would suggest that you are basing it on a faulty assumption: that the Body of Messiah has replaced the nation of Israel.  Perhaps you did not intend to purport this view, nevertheless, it must be the case for you, otherwise, you would not be able to imply that whatever was mandated by Torah for the nation is Israel is necessarily incumbent upon Gentile believers in Yeshua.

Be that as it may, if you are truly sojourning (as a modern &quot;ger&quot;) with a Messianic Jewish community--as you mentioned in your comment--then it seems as if you are taking up another&#039;s (imagined) offense. As a sojourner, I encourage you to fully take upon yourself the yoke of Torah that is commensurate with those whom you are &quot;in the midst of&quot; (bearing in mind, of course, the fundamental inability to truly &quot;keep&quot; Torah in Diaspora, without a functioning sacrificial system, etc).  However, if sojourning with Israel like Caleb, Rahab or Ruth is not your heart, and you feel that Torah-keeping is an obligation for all believers in Yeshua simply by virtue of being in Messiah, then I would take issue with that perspective.

I would also take issue with the idea that it is insufficient to be &quot;only a child of God and a seed of Abraham and not a child of Israel,&quot; because it was for the Gentile that Adonai called forth Abraham--and therefore Israel (and ultimately, sent Yeshua)--in the first place (Ge.12:1-3). Surely, the purpose of making and setting apart Israel was to restore the nations to Adonai -- not to transform the nations &lt;em&gt;into&lt;/em&gt; Israel and resettle every single believer onto a tiny plot of land in the middle east!

Gentile believers who are not sojourning with Messianic Jews certainly ought not to disparage the teachings of Torah. On the contrary, they should see the covenantal instructions of Torah not as something to ignore, but neither something to which they are required to obligate themselves. Rather, instead of seeing the covenant of Torah given to Israel as something to appropriate for themselves without regard for Israel as a people -- or something to trample on as if it were not the Word of God -- they should see Torah as a rich resource for all disciples of Messiah, &quot;profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness.&quot; (2Ti.3:16)  It is in this way that &quot;when Gentiles who do not have the [written] Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the [written] Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them...&quot; (Romans 2:14-15, NAS) 

The Torah was not meant to be applied individualistically, but communally -- and not not just communally, but for a specific people: Israel.  The Body of Messiah in general has an incomplete faith without an understanding of Torah -- it&#039;s message and purpose -- yet nowhere in Scripture does belief in Yeshua require adherence to the covenantal requirements placed upon the physical descendants of Israel.  The Gentile believer -- no matter how sincere -- cannot keep a covenant that God never made with him.  Rather, the covenants were made with Israel, and the Gentile believer partakes of the covenantal promises as a co-member -- not of Israel -- but of the household of God. (Ep. 2)

As a slave to Messiah, Debi, you are as &quot;free&quot; to violate the Torah that is written on all our hearts, as much as you are &quot;free&quot; to live your life focused on yourself, imagining that you are wholeheartedly following Yeshua.  Just don&#039;t confuse individualistic, diaspora, rabbinic &quot;Torah-keeping&quot; with being holy and pleasing to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalom Debi &#8212; thank you for your comments. It was an interesting choice to use sarcasm in an attempt to make your point.</p>
<p>To generally address your apparent application of Torah, I would suggest that you are basing it on a faulty assumption: that the Body of Messiah has replaced the nation of Israel.  Perhaps you did not intend to purport this view, nevertheless, it must be the case for you, otherwise, you would not be able to imply that whatever was mandated by Torah for the nation is Israel is necessarily incumbent upon Gentile believers in Yeshua.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, if you are truly sojourning (as a modern &#8220;ger&#8221;) with a Messianic Jewish community&#8211;as you mentioned in your comment&#8211;then it seems as if you are taking up another&#8217;s (imagined) offense. As a sojourner, I encourage you to fully take upon yourself the yoke of Torah that is commensurate with those whom you are &#8220;in the midst of&#8221; (bearing in mind, of course, the fundamental inability to truly &#8220;keep&#8221; Torah in Diaspora, without a functioning sacrificial system, etc).  However, if sojourning with Israel like Caleb, Rahab or Ruth is not your heart, and you feel that Torah-keeping is an obligation for all believers in Yeshua simply by virtue of being in Messiah, then I would take issue with that perspective.</p>
<p>I would also take issue with the idea that it is insufficient to be &#8220;only a child of God and a seed of Abraham and not a child of Israel,&#8221; because it was for the Gentile that Adonai called forth Abraham&#8211;and therefore Israel (and ultimately, sent Yeshua)&#8211;in the first place (Ge.12:1-3). Surely, the purpose of making and setting apart Israel was to restore the nations to Adonai &#8212; not to transform the nations <em>into</em> Israel and resettle every single believer onto a tiny plot of land in the middle east!</p>
<p>Gentile believers who are not sojourning with Messianic Jews certainly ought not to disparage the teachings of Torah. On the contrary, they should see the covenantal instructions of Torah not as something to ignore, but neither something to which they are required to obligate themselves. Rather, instead of seeing the covenant of Torah given to Israel as something to appropriate for themselves without regard for Israel as a people &#8212; or something to trample on as if it were not the Word of God &#8212; they should see Torah as a rich resource for all disciples of Messiah, &#8220;profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness.&#8221; (2Ti.3:16)  It is in this way that &#8220;when Gentiles who do not have the [written] Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the [written] Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them&#8230;&#8221; (Romans 2:14-15, NAS) </p>
<p>The Torah was not meant to be applied individualistically, but communally &#8212; and not not just communally, but for a specific people: Israel.  The Body of Messiah in general has an incomplete faith without an understanding of Torah &#8212; it&#8217;s message and purpose &#8212; yet nowhere in Scripture does belief in Yeshua require adherence to the covenantal requirements placed upon the physical descendants of Israel.  The Gentile believer &#8212; no matter how sincere &#8212; cannot keep a covenant that God never made with him.  Rather, the covenants were made with Israel, and the Gentile believer partakes of the covenantal promises as a co-member &#8212; not of Israel &#8212; but of the household of God. (Ep. 2)</p>
<p>As a slave to Messiah, Debi, you are as &#8220;free&#8221; to violate the Torah that is written on all our hearts, as much as you are &#8220;free&#8221; to live your life focused on yourself, imagining that you are wholeheartedly following Yeshua.  Just don&#8217;t confuse individualistic, diaspora, rabbinic &#8220;Torah-keeping&#8221; with being holy and pleasing to God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jew Food by Debi</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Debi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=303#comment-330</guid>
		<description>So.... according to your theology.... since I am Gentile, I am free to go back to eating whatever I want, as long as I don&#039;t do it among those who are Jewish, because the law does not apply to me.  Since law does not apply to me that means I am also free to leave the Messianic Jewish synagogue I have been attending since Sukkot and return to worshiping on Sunday with my Gentile siblings.  I am free to worship on whatever day I choose and leave the keeping of Shabbat to my Jewish brethren.  I also need not be concerned with celebrating the Jewish festivals, and just leave them to my Jewish brethren as well.  In addition, any Jewish brethren who loan me money can charge me usury, as I have no Jewish DNA.  I also would not have to concern myself with tithing, giving to the poor, heeding prophets, rebuking sinners, returning lost property to its owner, loving converts, saying grace after meals, honoring my parents, or the rest of the 613 mitzvot, which also happens to include fearing God and walking in His ways, as well as keeping myself from idolatry.  In this case, I am glad that I have not already invested in mezuzahs for my doors, tzitzits or a tallit, as I can leave these to my Jewish siblings as well and not waste my money since it doesn&#039;t apply to me and will profit me nothing.  Since I am *only* a child of God and a seed of Abraham and *not* a child of Israel, then I am free in all things and able to ignore the law which applies only to those with Jewish DNA to whom it was given.  As long as I am not in the midst of those who are Jewish, I am free to do as I please.  Is this correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230;. according to your theology&#8230;. since I am Gentile, I am free to go back to eating whatever I want, as long as I don&#8217;t do it among those who are Jewish, because the law does not apply to me.  Since law does not apply to me that means I am also free to leave the Messianic Jewish synagogue I have been attending since Sukkot and return to worshiping on Sunday with my Gentile siblings.  I am free to worship on whatever day I choose and leave the keeping of Shabbat to my Jewish brethren.  I also need not be concerned with celebrating the Jewish festivals, and just leave them to my Jewish brethren as well.  In addition, any Jewish brethren who loan me money can charge me usury, as I have no Jewish DNA.  I also would not have to concern myself with tithing, giving to the poor, heeding prophets, rebuking sinners, returning lost property to its owner, loving converts, saying grace after meals, honoring my parents, or the rest of the 613 mitzvot, which also happens to include fearing God and walking in His ways, as well as keeping myself from idolatry.  In this case, I am glad that I have not already invested in mezuzahs for my doors, tzitzits or a tallit, as I can leave these to my Jewish siblings as well and not waste my money since it doesn&#8217;t apply to me and will profit me nothing.  Since I am *only* a child of God and a seed of Abraham and *not* a child of Israel, then I am free in all things and able to ignore the law which applies only to those with Jewish DNA to whom it was given.  As long as I am not in the midst of those who are Jewish, I am free to do as I please.  Is this correct?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jew Food by Bill C</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=303#comment-320</guid>
		<description>Great question and reply. They helped me greatly in uderstanding laws of kashrut. when we see the word food in the bible it is only refering to food that is kosher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question and reply. They helped me greatly in uderstanding laws of kashrut. when we see the word food in the bible it is only refering to food that is kosher.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-202</guid>
		<description>In many mitvot regarding high holidays, it was commanded that the foreigners sojourning in Israel in the houses of Isrealites abide by the same regulations. This is how I see it - if you are a gentile dwelling in a house of an Isaelite in Israel during the high holidays, you are under the law. 
As far as Torah goes, as a gentile, it is your choice, but Caleb, Ruth, and others have siad &quot;your people will be my people&quot;. If you are joining G-d&#039;s chosen people, then your should adhere to the Torah as one of G-d&#039;s chosen. The law doesn&#039;t demand it, but personal conviction should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many mitvot regarding high holidays, it was commanded that the foreigners sojourning in Israel in the houses of Isrealites abide by the same regulations. This is how I see it &#8211; if you are a gentile dwelling in a house of an Isaelite in Israel during the high holidays, you are under the law.<br />
As far as Torah goes, as a gentile, it is your choice, but Caleb, Ruth, and others have siad &#8220;your people will be my people&#8221;. If you are joining G-d&#8217;s chosen people, then your should adhere to the Torah as one of G-d&#8217;s chosen. The law doesn&#8217;t demand it, but personal conviction should.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by Debra Tillman</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-200</guid>
		<description>I believe all should follow the torah.  In fact, in many ways, the christians follow it.  the problem is, they don&#039;t want to specifically say they are following it.  When we live as the Messiah lived, we are living and following Torah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe all should follow the torah.  In fact, in many ways, the christians follow it.  the problem is, they don&#8217;t want to specifically say they are following it.  When we live as the Messiah lived, we are living and following Torah.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by George</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-196</guid>
		<description>Yeshua said specifically that he did NOT come to change the Torah or any of the teachings and that both Heaven and Earth will pass before one jot and tittle of the Torah is changed. I truely believe that these statements say it all. All who wish to follow his teachings must study the Torah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeshua said specifically that he did NOT come to change the Torah or any of the teachings and that both Heaven and Earth will pass before one jot and tittle of the Torah is changed. I truely believe that these statements say it all. All who wish to follow his teachings must study the Torah.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-193</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting conversation.

Phil - you raise some good points; however, what did James mean when he stated that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.  Could it mean that a &quot;minimum&quot; standard was established, but the with expectation of each person growing in their relationship and convictions - through the reading, understanding and following of Torah as God led them?

Janice - I also have a difficulty with the construction of the the survey.  But I am not sure I &quot;know&quot; that Messiah fulfilled the requirements of animal sacrifices.  In Acts 21:23-26, Paul agrees to pay for the animal sacrifices of four men who apparently were completing the vows of a Nazarite.

Mark (and many others) - your words are like springs of encouragement - thank you.

I look forward to future discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting conversation.</p>
<p>Phil &#8211; you raise some good points; however, what did James mean when he stated that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.  Could it mean that a &#8220;minimum&#8221; standard was established, but the with expectation of each person growing in their relationship and convictions &#8211; through the reading, understanding and following of Torah as God led them?</p>
<p>Janice &#8211; I also have a difficulty with the construction of the the survey.  But I am not sure I &#8220;know&#8221; that Messiah fulfilled the requirements of animal sacrifices.  In Acts 21:23-26, Paul agrees to pay for the animal sacrifices of four men who apparently were completing the vows of a Nazarite.</p>
<p>Mark (and many others) &#8211; your words are like springs of encouragement &#8211; thank you.</p>
<p>I look forward to future discussions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-192</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s amazing to me how much theology still creeps it&#039;s ugly head into the Body of Messiah!  Does anyone even read the Word anymore?  Better question, does anyone read the Word in proper context?

First of all, the context of Hebrews is about the earthly Levitical priesthood.  It was a shadow of the heavenly and was therefore insufficient, since it was the duty of men, fallen men.  Just like animal sacrifice for sin, it was a substitute until Moshiach reigns as High Priest in the Heavenly.  Why do you think Elohim told Moshe to build everything and to do everything exactly as he was shown?

Second, Acts 15 was never about should gentiles keep Torah or not.  If so, it contradicts Exo. 12:49 &amp; Num. 15:16.  There is no such thing (biblically) as the &quot;Noachide laws&quot;.  They are an invention of those who twist scripture to match their theology.  Folks, when Yeshua was talking about His sheep, he didn&#039;t mean it literally.  Stop being sheep, stop following the &quot;theology&quot; crowd and start thinking for yourselves with the Ruach (spirit) and Yeshua&#039;s example as your guide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amazing to me how much theology still creeps it&#8217;s ugly head into the Body of Messiah!  Does anyone even read the Word anymore?  Better question, does anyone read the Word in proper context?</p>
<p>First of all, the context of Hebrews is about the earthly Levitical priesthood.  It was a shadow of the heavenly and was therefore insufficient, since it was the duty of men, fallen men.  Just like animal sacrifice for sin, it was a substitute until Moshiach reigns as High Priest in the Heavenly.  Why do you think Elohim told Moshe to build everything and to do everything exactly as he was shown?</p>
<p>Second, Acts 15 was never about should gentiles keep Torah or not.  If so, it contradicts Exo. 12:49 &amp; Num. 15:16.  There is no such thing (biblically) as the &#8220;Noachide laws&#8221;.  They are an invention of those who twist scripture to match their theology.  Folks, when Yeshua was talking about His sheep, he didn&#8217;t mean it literally.  Stop being sheep, stop following the &#8220;theology&#8221; crowd and start thinking for yourselves with the Ruach (spirit) and Yeshua&#8217;s example as your guide.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by Janice</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-191</guid>
		<description>The survey isn&#039;t constructed well.  Torah includes animal sacrifices yet we know that Messiah fulfilled those requirements.  To bandy about the name Torah while baiting people to answer a question (this was not a survey) is simply  &quot;stirring up a stink&quot;.  Not all of Torah applies in this time.  You simply cannot ask people if we are supposed to follow &quot;Torah&quot; or not.  I think a much more interesting survey which would be more fruitful is one that measures which parts of the Torah are considered binding today.  We are not obedient to Torah.  We are obedient to God, the spirit fulfilling the teachings; He will make all things come to pass either now or in the future.  The fullness of understanding of God&#039;s plan is that at some point in the future, the sacrifices will be instituted.  So it is not a question if who keeps Torah ... it is a question of which parts of the Torah apply today.  THEN follows the question - who should be observing them?

I have another question I will post at another time concerning the millenial sacrifice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The survey isn&#8217;t constructed well.  Torah includes animal sacrifices yet we know that Messiah fulfilled those requirements.  To bandy about the name Torah while baiting people to answer a question (this was not a survey) is simply  &#8220;stirring up a stink&#8221;.  Not all of Torah applies in this time.  You simply cannot ask people if we are supposed to follow &#8220;Torah&#8221; or not.  I think a much more interesting survey which would be more fruitful is one that measures which parts of the Torah are considered binding today.  We are not obedient to Torah.  We are obedient to God, the spirit fulfilling the teachings; He will make all things come to pass either now or in the future.  The fullness of understanding of God&#8217;s plan is that at some point in the future, the sacrifices will be instituted.  So it is not a question if who keeps Torah &#8230; it is a question of which parts of the Torah apply today.  THEN follows the question &#8211; who should be observing them?</p>
<p>I have another question I will post at another time concerning the millenial sacrifice.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where Do You Stand on TORAH? by George</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/07/28/where-do-you-stand-on-torah/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=468#comment-190</guid>
		<description>There is significance in knowledge of the Torah to understand how God brought in the first Covenant through the Jewish People.  They as a people were not successful in fulfilling the Law&#039;s demands and failed misarably in fulfilling the Law to the extent they were unable to receive the Messiah when he walked amongs them.  Many years have passed and the Law has never been fulfilled according to the Jewish Race.  In my opinion the question should be does the Torah assist Believers and non-believers to the Truth about Salvation and then the response should be yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is significance in knowledge of the Torah to understand how God brought in the first Covenant through the Jewish People.  They as a people were not successful in fulfilling the Law&#8217;s demands and failed misarably in fulfilling the Law to the extent they were unable to receive the Messiah when he walked amongs them.  Many years have passed and the Law has never been fulfilled according to the Jewish Race.  In my opinion the question should be does the Torah assist Believers and non-believers to the Truth about Salvation and then the response should be yes.</p>
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