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	<title>Comments on: Jew Food</title>
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	<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/</link>
	<description>A Messianic Jewish Equipping Ministry</description>
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		<title>By: Barbara M Lopez</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara M Lopez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 21:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kevin:

My daughter who is a nurse has told me about research that shows a link between pork, the parasites and its eggs causing arthritis.  Shell fish contain cholesterol, eating animal fat causing other problems.  I am Jewish, and more and more I see G&#039;d&#039;s wisdom in  what &quot;foods&quot; He told us to avoid.  They are simply not good for our bodies.  Of course gentile believers can eat as they please, but I think that science supports G&#039;d&#039;s instruction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin:</p>
<p>My daughter who is a nurse has told me about research that shows a link between pork, the parasites and its eggs causing arthritis.  Shell fish contain cholesterol, eating animal fat causing other problems.  I am Jewish, and more and more I see G&#8217;d's wisdom in  what &#8220;foods&#8221; He told us to avoid.  They are simply not good for our bodies.  Of course gentile believers can eat as they please, but I think that science supports G&#8217;d's instruction.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-556</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That sounds good, Suzie. I would ask, however, whether it actually &lt;em&gt;displeases &lt;/em&gt;God when the Reconciled from the Nations eat animals that are unclean for Israel? Adonai created all these wondrous creatures in the beginning, calling them &quot;good,&quot; and then says to Noah in Genesis 9:3 (just before making the covenant with all mankind), &quot;Every moving thing that is alive, to you it is for food.&quot; Did God change his mind, much less change His mind &lt;em&gt;for everyone &lt;/em&gt;when He gave Israel their food laws? Or, are such animals abominable and detestable, not to God, but simply&lt;em&gt; as food for Israel?&lt;/em&gt; (Note all the times in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 it says they are an abomination &quot;to you&quot;, that is, the sons of Israel.)

Obviously, there&#039;s no law that says Gentiles &lt;em&gt;must&lt;/em&gt; eat foods that are unclean for Israel. I just wonder if the Scriptures &lt;em&gt;really &lt;/em&gt;say that animals which are unclean as food for Israel are unclean for all people, and therefore displeasing to God.

Just food for thought! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds good, Suzie. I would ask, however, whether it actually <em>displeases </em>God when the Reconciled from the Nations eat animals that are unclean for Israel? Adonai created all these wondrous creatures in the beginning, calling them &#8220;good,&#8221; and then says to Noah in Genesis 9:3 (just before making the covenant with all mankind), &#8220;Every moving thing that is alive, to you it is for food.&#8221; Did God change his mind, much less change His mind <em>for everyone </em>when He gave Israel their food laws? Or, are such animals abominable and detestable, not to God, but simply<em> as food for Israel?</em> (Note all the times in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 it says they are an abomination &#8220;to you&#8221;, that is, the sons of Israel.)</p>
<p>Obviously, there&#8217;s no law that says Gentiles <em>must</em> eat foods that are unclean for Israel. I just wonder if the Scriptures <em>really </em>say that animals which are unclean as food for Israel are unclean for all people, and therefore displeasing to God.</p>
<p>Just food for thought! <img src='http://www.perfect-word.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Suzie Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzie Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That does make sense. My thoughts on the subject is very simple, though. If not eating certain types of animals pleases G-d, then I&#039;m very happy to give them up. It makes no difference to me whether I HAVE to. It&#039;s something I want to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That does make sense. My thoughts on the subject is very simple, though. If not eating certain types of animals pleases G-d, then I&#8217;m very happy to give them up. It makes no difference to me whether I HAVE to. It&#8217;s something I want to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What Gentile believers are grafted into in the Romans 11 olive tree is somewhat up for debate, but whatever it is (whether it’s Yeshua, Messianic Jews, or Abraham [Ro.4:12] or all the patriarchs [Ro.11:28]) it has a “Jewish root.” No doubt, in Messiah, the Gentile believer derives some form of spiritual sustenance from its Jewish root, but we can’t take Paul’s metaphor too far, nor can we consider it without the context of other passages on this subject, like Ephesians 2 and 3.

You’re correct—no covenants (since Noah) were given to Gentiles, however, through the blood of Messiah, Gentile believers are &lt;em&gt;brought near&lt;/em&gt; to the covenants of promise (which seems to be the Abrahamic and New Covenants), becoming sharers in the &lt;em&gt;promises&lt;/em&gt;—co-heirs and co-members with the remnant of Israel &lt;em&gt;not within the commonwealth of Israel, but in the Body&lt;/em&gt;, that is, the Household of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Gentile believers are grafted into in the Romans 11 olive tree is somewhat up for debate, but whatever it is (whether it’s Yeshua, Messianic Jews, or Abraham [Ro.4:12] or all the patriarchs [Ro.11:28]) it has a “Jewish root.” No doubt, in Messiah, the Gentile believer derives some form of spiritual sustenance from its Jewish root, but we can’t take Paul’s metaphor too far, nor can we consider it without the context of other passages on this subject, like Ephesians 2 and 3.</p>
<p>You’re correct—no covenants (since Noah) were given to Gentiles, however, through the blood of Messiah, Gentile believers are <em>brought near</em> to the covenants of promise (which seems to be the Abrahamic and New Covenants), becoming sharers in the <em>promises</em>—co-heirs and co-members with the remnant of Israel <em>not within the commonwealth of Israel, but in the Body</em>, that is, the Household of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzie Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzie Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So then which covenants were given to the Gentiless? The way I understand it, none. I&#039;m not trying to supplant Israel, but from my understanding of Romans 11, Gentile believers in Messiah are grafted into Israel. Is that wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So then which covenants were given to the Gentiless? The way I understand it, none. I&#8217;m not trying to supplant Israel, but from my understanding of Romans 11, Gentile believers in Messiah are grafted into Israel. Is that wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: KG</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>KG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shalom Debi -- thank you for your comments. It was an interesting choice to use sarcasm in an attempt to make your point.

To generally address your apparent application of Torah, I would suggest that you are basing it on a faulty assumption: that the Body of Messiah has replaced the nation of Israel.  Perhaps you did not intend to purport this view, nevertheless, it must be the case for you, otherwise, you would not be able to imply that whatever was mandated by Torah for the nation is Israel is necessarily incumbent upon Gentile believers in Yeshua.

Be that as it may, if you are truly sojourning (as a modern &quot;ger&quot;) with a Messianic Jewish community--as you mentioned in your comment--then it seems as if you are taking up another&#039;s (imagined) offense. As a sojourner, I encourage you to fully take upon yourself the yoke of Torah that is commensurate with those whom you are &quot;in the midst of&quot; (bearing in mind, of course, the fundamental inability to truly &quot;keep&quot; Torah in Diaspora, without a functioning sacrificial system, etc).  However, if sojourning with Israel like Caleb, Rahab or Ruth is not your heart, and you feel that Torah-keeping is an obligation for all believers in Yeshua simply by virtue of being in Messiah, then I would take issue with that perspective.

I would also take issue with the idea that it is insufficient to be &quot;only a child of God and a seed of Abraham and not a child of Israel,&quot; because it was for the Gentile that Adonai called forth Abraham--and therefore Israel (and ultimately, sent Yeshua)--in the first place (Ge.12:1-3). Surely, the purpose of making and setting apart Israel was to restore the nations to Adonai -- not to transform the nations &lt;em&gt;into&lt;/em&gt; Israel and resettle every single believer onto a tiny plot of land in the middle east!

Gentile believers who are not sojourning with Messianic Jews certainly ought not to disparage the teachings of Torah. On the contrary, they should see the covenantal instructions of Torah not as something to ignore, but neither something to which they are required to obligate themselves. Rather, instead of seeing the covenant of Torah given to Israel as something to appropriate for themselves without regard for Israel as a people -- or something to trample on as if it were not the Word of God -- they should see Torah as a rich resource for all disciples of Messiah, &quot;profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness.&quot; (2Ti.3:16)  It is in this way that &quot;when Gentiles who do not have the [written] Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the [written] Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them...&quot; (Romans 2:14-15, NAS) 

The Torah was not meant to be applied individualistically, but communally -- and not not just communally, but for a specific people: Israel.  The Body of Messiah in general has an incomplete faith without an understanding of Torah -- it&#039;s message and purpose -- yet nowhere in Scripture does belief in Yeshua require adherence to the covenantal requirements placed upon the physical descendants of Israel.  The Gentile believer -- no matter how sincere -- cannot keep a covenant that God never made with him.  Rather, the covenants were made with Israel, and the Gentile believer partakes of the covenantal promises as a co-member -- not of Israel -- but of the household of God. (Ep. 2)

As a slave to Messiah, Debi, you are as &quot;free&quot; to violate the Torah that is written on all our hearts, as much as you are &quot;free&quot; to live your life focused on yourself, imagining that you are wholeheartedly following Yeshua.  Just don&#039;t confuse individualistic, diaspora, rabbinic &quot;Torah-keeping&quot; with being holy and pleasing to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalom Debi &#8212; thank you for your comments. It was an interesting choice to use sarcasm in an attempt to make your point.</p>
<p>To generally address your apparent application of Torah, I would suggest that you are basing it on a faulty assumption: that the Body of Messiah has replaced the nation of Israel.  Perhaps you did not intend to purport this view, nevertheless, it must be the case for you, otherwise, you would not be able to imply that whatever was mandated by Torah for the nation is Israel is necessarily incumbent upon Gentile believers in Yeshua.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, if you are truly sojourning (as a modern &#8220;ger&#8221;) with a Messianic Jewish community&#8211;as you mentioned in your comment&#8211;then it seems as if you are taking up another&#8217;s (imagined) offense. As a sojourner, I encourage you to fully take upon yourself the yoke of Torah that is commensurate with those whom you are &#8220;in the midst of&#8221; (bearing in mind, of course, the fundamental inability to truly &#8220;keep&#8221; Torah in Diaspora, without a functioning sacrificial system, etc).  However, if sojourning with Israel like Caleb, Rahab or Ruth is not your heart, and you feel that Torah-keeping is an obligation for all believers in Yeshua simply by virtue of being in Messiah, then I would take issue with that perspective.</p>
<p>I would also take issue with the idea that it is insufficient to be &#8220;only a child of God and a seed of Abraham and not a child of Israel,&#8221; because it was for the Gentile that Adonai called forth Abraham&#8211;and therefore Israel (and ultimately, sent Yeshua)&#8211;in the first place (Ge.12:1-3). Surely, the purpose of making and setting apart Israel was to restore the nations to Adonai &#8212; not to transform the nations <em>into</em> Israel and resettle every single believer onto a tiny plot of land in the middle east!</p>
<p>Gentile believers who are not sojourning with Messianic Jews certainly ought not to disparage the teachings of Torah. On the contrary, they should see the covenantal instructions of Torah not as something to ignore, but neither something to which they are required to obligate themselves. Rather, instead of seeing the covenant of Torah given to Israel as something to appropriate for themselves without regard for Israel as a people &#8212; or something to trample on as if it were not the Word of God &#8212; they should see Torah as a rich resource for all disciples of Messiah, &#8220;profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness.&#8221; (2Ti.3:16)  It is in this way that &#8220;when Gentiles who do not have the [written] Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the [written] Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them&#8230;&#8221; (Romans 2:14-15, NAS) </p>
<p>The Torah was not meant to be applied individualistically, but communally &#8212; and not not just communally, but for a specific people: Israel.  The Body of Messiah in general has an incomplete faith without an understanding of Torah &#8212; it&#8217;s message and purpose &#8212; yet nowhere in Scripture does belief in Yeshua require adherence to the covenantal requirements placed upon the physical descendants of Israel.  The Gentile believer &#8212; no matter how sincere &#8212; cannot keep a covenant that God never made with him.  Rather, the covenants were made with Israel, and the Gentile believer partakes of the covenantal promises as a co-member &#8212; not of Israel &#8212; but of the household of God. (Ep. 2)</p>
<p>As a slave to Messiah, Debi, you are as &#8220;free&#8221; to violate the Torah that is written on all our hearts, as much as you are &#8220;free&#8221; to live your life focused on yourself, imagining that you are wholeheartedly following Yeshua.  Just don&#8217;t confuse individualistic, diaspora, rabbinic &#8220;Torah-keeping&#8221; with being holy and pleasing to God.</p>
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		<title>By: Debi</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Debi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=303#comment-330</guid>
		<description>So.... according to your theology.... since I am Gentile, I am free to go back to eating whatever I want, as long as I don&#039;t do it among those who are Jewish, because the law does not apply to me.  Since law does not apply to me that means I am also free to leave the Messianic Jewish synagogue I have been attending since Sukkot and return to worshiping on Sunday with my Gentile siblings.  I am free to worship on whatever day I choose and leave the keeping of Shabbat to my Jewish brethren.  I also need not be concerned with celebrating the Jewish festivals, and just leave them to my Jewish brethren as well.  In addition, any Jewish brethren who loan me money can charge me usury, as I have no Jewish DNA.  I also would not have to concern myself with tithing, giving to the poor, heeding prophets, rebuking sinners, returning lost property to its owner, loving converts, saying grace after meals, honoring my parents, or the rest of the 613 mitzvot, which also happens to include fearing God and walking in His ways, as well as keeping myself from idolatry.  In this case, I am glad that I have not already invested in mezuzahs for my doors, tzitzits or a tallit, as I can leave these to my Jewish siblings as well and not waste my money since it doesn&#039;t apply to me and will profit me nothing.  Since I am *only* a child of God and a seed of Abraham and *not* a child of Israel, then I am free in all things and able to ignore the law which applies only to those with Jewish DNA to whom it was given.  As long as I am not in the midst of those who are Jewish, I am free to do as I please.  Is this correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230;. according to your theology&#8230;. since I am Gentile, I am free to go back to eating whatever I want, as long as I don&#8217;t do it among those who are Jewish, because the law does not apply to me.  Since law does not apply to me that means I am also free to leave the Messianic Jewish synagogue I have been attending since Sukkot and return to worshiping on Sunday with my Gentile siblings.  I am free to worship on whatever day I choose and leave the keeping of Shabbat to my Jewish brethren.  I also need not be concerned with celebrating the Jewish festivals, and just leave them to my Jewish brethren as well.  In addition, any Jewish brethren who loan me money can charge me usury, as I have no Jewish DNA.  I also would not have to concern myself with tithing, giving to the poor, heeding prophets, rebuking sinners, returning lost property to its owner, loving converts, saying grace after meals, honoring my parents, or the rest of the 613 mitzvot, which also happens to include fearing God and walking in His ways, as well as keeping myself from idolatry.  In this case, I am glad that I have not already invested in mezuzahs for my doors, tzitzits or a tallit, as I can leave these to my Jewish siblings as well and not waste my money since it doesn&#8217;t apply to me and will profit me nothing.  Since I am *only* a child of God and a seed of Abraham and *not* a child of Israel, then I am free in all things and able to ignore the law which applies only to those with Jewish DNA to whom it was given.  As long as I am not in the midst of those who are Jewish, I am free to do as I please.  Is this correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill C</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great question and reply. They helped me greatly in uderstanding laws of kashrut. when we see the word food in the bible it is only refering to food that is kosher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question and reply. They helped me greatly in uderstanding laws of kashrut. when we see the word food in the bible it is only refering to food that is kosher.</p>
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		<title>By: KG</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>KG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Your response is based on the premise that Gentile believers in Yeshua are &quot;Spiritual Israel,&quot; or, as you put it, &quot;Israel in the Spirit.&quot;  Does Scripture support this premise?  Can you show from Scriptue that being a son of Abraham (which describes Jewish and Gentile believers alike) is equivalent to being a son of Israel? 

Be that as it may, I don&#039;t believe Scripture obligates all Gentile believers to define food the same way that Israel does.  For Gentiles within the context of a Jewish community (such as a Messianic Jewish community) I think Gentiles share the same obligation with their Messianic Jewish counterparts.  This is because they have assimilated into the Jewish people (e.g. Caleb, Rahab, Ruth) and become like the native-born Jew.  Outside that community, however, within the greater Body of Messiah (the &quot;Church&quot;), there is no such obligation.  This applies to all aspects of Torah which were designed to distinguish Israel from the nations.  The unity between Jew and Gentile does not take place within the nation of Israel (for the nation of Israel presently exists partially without [non-Messianic Jews] and partially within [Messianic Jews] the Body of Messiah), but within the Body of Messiah, or the Household of God (Ep. 2).

To sum up: Torah&#039;s definition of food applies to Jews (and the Gentiles who sojourn with them in their Messianic Jewish communities).  Gentile believers in the larger Body of Messiah are not obligated to define food in the same manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Your response is based on the premise that Gentile believers in Yeshua are &#8220;Spiritual Israel,&#8221; or, as you put it, &#8220;Israel in the Spirit.&#8221;  Does Scripture support this premise?  Can you show from Scriptue that being a son of Abraham (which describes Jewish and Gentile believers alike) is equivalent to being a son of Israel? </p>
<p>Be that as it may, I don&#8217;t believe Scripture obligates all Gentile believers to define food the same way that Israel does.  For Gentiles within the context of a Jewish community (such as a Messianic Jewish community) I think Gentiles share the same obligation with their Messianic Jewish counterparts.  This is because they have assimilated into the Jewish people (e.g. Caleb, Rahab, Ruth) and become like the native-born Jew.  Outside that community, however, within the greater Body of Messiah (the &#8220;Church&#8221;), there is no such obligation.  This applies to all aspects of Torah which were designed to distinguish Israel from the nations.  The unity between Jew and Gentile does not take place within the nation of Israel (for the nation of Israel presently exists partially without [non-Messianic Jews] and partially within [Messianic Jews] the Body of Messiah), but within the Body of Messiah, or the Household of God (Ep. 2).</p>
<p>To sum up: Torah&#8217;s definition of food applies to Jews (and the Gentiles who sojourn with them in their Messianic Jewish communities).  Gentile believers in the larger Body of Messiah are not obligated to define food in the same manner.</p>
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		<title>By: William Venard</title>
		<link>http://www.perfect-word.org/2009/02/10/jew-food/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>William Venard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perfect-word.org/?p=303#comment-69</guid>
		<description>So, let me be clear on this.  With regard to food, this only applies to those who are born Jews...Jews in the flesh?  What about Gentile believers, those who are now adopted into the faith of Abraham (bar &amp; bat Avraham)?  Does this not also apply to them since they are now Israel in the Spirit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, let me be clear on this.  With regard to food, this only applies to those who are born Jews&#8230;Jews in the flesh?  What about Gentile believers, those who are now adopted into the faith of Abraham (bar &amp; bat Avraham)?  Does this not also apply to them since they are now Israel in the Spirit?</p>
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